Russian special military operation in Ukraine #56

"European leaders do not need to follow the dictates of an increasingly unreliable United States on how to fight in Ukraine; they can and should decide for themselves how best to ensure the freedom and security of the continent."

Hahaha... we are running out of Ukrainian bodies... lets get the Europeans to use their bodies to fill the gap...

European troops could relieve the burden on the Ukrainians by performing logistical functions such as maintenance and repairs combat vehicles."

There is a good chance they already do.

"One such mission could involve strengthening Ukraine's air defense capabilities in the region by deploying personnel, providing equipment, or even taking over command and control of the Ukrainian air defense system."

From a Russian perspective that would be fantastic because a HATO run air defence network would need aircraft and not much else...

"The arrival of European troops in Ukraine will change this calculus. Moscow will have to come to terms with the fact that European escalation could make the military confrontation unwinnable for Russia."

To the contrary, European bodies coming back in body bags will more likely force Europe to accept the conflict is lost and to cut their losses which up until the openly sent troops to Ukraine could be explained with crashes and accidents and would otherwise be material and financial. When it starts being the youth of Europe being eviscerated then perhaps attitudes in the west will change. The western media is owned by the rich but western reporters have children and their children have friends so once one of them is directly touched by the conflict the truth will become rather more important...

"The real question is whether Russia would actually use nuclear weapons if European troops entered Ukraine. This is perhaps a moot point, given that Western special operations forces are currently operating in Ukraine."

Western special forces operate everywhere and don't indicate a massive use of manpower and weapons to secure territory in a country like openly sending conventional troops does.

Looking forward to reading the explanations regarding being invited into a country to defend it from terrorists or invasion so we can compare and contrast the rhetoric from the same people talking about Russian and Iranian forces in Syria.

“Moreover, a European-led response would undermine Russian propaganda that NATO intervention in Ukraine is merely an American ploy to undermine Russia.”

Except it has been admitted openly multiple times that donating money and weapons and ammo to Ukraine weakens and damages Russia and that is a goal for them.

It is a colonial power trying to talk a proxy force to fight its main enemy because it does not have the spine to do so for itself.

If it would be so easy for Europe to send their troops into the Ukraine to intimidate Russia then surely US troops would be rather more intimidating... and you have plenty of men based in Europe... what is the point of that if you are too afraid to use them?

"The claim that NATO is the aggressor is popular in many parts of the world.

Only because it is true.

And since European forces will be operating outside NATO and on NATO territory, any casualties will not trigger an Article 5 response and will not attract the US. Russia's adversary will not be NATO, but a coalition of European countries seeking to balance naked Russian imperialism."

What an ally... the US is saying.... you do it because you wont get into trouble like we would... they are throwing countries they call allies under the bus...

Europeans are frightened by the fact that NATO could collapse if it does not respond to the challenge thrown at it by Moscow in Ukraine (after all, we must not forget that then Moscow will attack Baltic states !).

What use is HATO in this situation except an instrument for the US to tell Europeans to fight Russia on their own to keep the US and HATO out of it...

Looking at the growth rates of the west v. the rest this would be the most reasonable decision for those people.

Yeah... don't knock it until you tried it... at least they would be less embarrassed by the leadership of their country all the time.

Why should Russia use nukes? It can rip them apart with conventional weapons.

Iskander is a very fast weapon and can deal with troops or groups of armour using cluster munition warheads...

Their glide bombs can carry cluster munition warheads too... let HATO troops learn the power of cluster bombs...

The claim that NATO is the aggressor is popular in many parts of the world.

Funny how popular has become a bad word amongst the HATO Nazis... Trump is a popularist leader... he has widespread popularity... there was a time when popular led to a majority and that was how democracy worked but now it is a cult thing if it doesn't match the current agenda.

It can also make tanks look like APCs and low value targets. Like a truck.

The factory built designs could be made with camouflage and deception in mind... I would say use a school bus or ambulance shell but the orcs have no problem shooting those so it would offer little protection.

I was not aware of that you are so wholeheartedly supporter of the Ukrainians.

He is just pointing out the contradictions in the EU in generally isn't he?

Returning military age males to Ukraine makes perfect sense, I am sure that the agreement can be adjusted to allow this to happen.

For a coward too afraid to fight a war they started I would not be surprised if the EU started sending all illegal immigrants to fight its nazi war against the Russian speaking Ukrainians.

Sending Ukrainian workers from the EU to Ukraine to be killed by Russian ammo would currently suit the EU because jobs are becoming more difficult to find so ripping out lots of Ukrainians would benefit them, and also sending bodies to die fighting and weakening Russia that are not EU country men would also suit them.

I wonder if Ukrainians will take the time to realise the generosity of the west in creating a conflict and then using up Ukrainian men like chaff to feed that conflict with Russia to weaken Russia.

How is that going by the way...

While Ukraine is so eager to involve foreign troops in the fighting on its side, it is somehow very unwilling to make use of its own young adult males for the same purpose, a behavior that is preposterous. No sane government or people should support such behavior.

The Ukraine government would love to have all its exported population back to feed into the meat grinder... the longer it runs the longer they get gravy.

It is the Ukrainian people who don't want to fight, otherwise there would be no need to send them back... they would be volunteering to go back in huge numbers to save their country.

But the thinking ones probably realise it has been 30 years of corruption and western asset stripping and the Ukraine is no longer owned and operated by Ukrainians any more... the country is being run by the US embassy in Kiev... why fight against a strong Russia... that has never been in the interests of Ukraine... makes sense for the EU and HATO and US because they are not paying a price in blood that they care much about.

Poles do not want to fight for their own genociders.

They seem to be happy sending money and food and weapons and most other things to help... wait a minute... when you say the genociders of Poland... do you mean Ukraine or EU or HATO or US or all of the above?

Female tank with her child on a evening walk.

That is the troop transport version of the BMD used by airborne forces...

Did I read this right on the previous page ? ppl were questioning if Russia would open fire on Nato troops ? In Ukraine? Of course they would and already have. They have since the very start. Remember that training ground close to the Polish border ? It was run by Nato. And they shot the place up

The people saying that want you to not remember that because their agenda is to get EU countries to join the cannon fodder collective... you get a free set of steak knives if you sign up without reading the agreement document in full.

Hurry everyone is signing up you might miss out...

gearing up for assault on Arkhangelsk

Most western "reporters" will believe that Ukros managed to occupy Arkhangelsk in
Northern Russia. 

NATO trophies are positioned in Moscow for viewing

Is their already a tender for the construction of a new museum in Moscow for all that stuff? 

That is the troop transport version of the BMD used by airborne forces...

Hole wrote:
Most western "reporters" will believe that Ukros managed to occupy Arkhangelsk in
Northern Russia. 

When in 2008 CNN started to report "evil Russia invaded Georgia" some Murican morons took their M4s and headed to the state of Georgia "that has been invaded! "
I don't suppose the average IQ to improve since

higurashihougi wrote:

Ukrainian UAVs that has just been captured by Russian forces.

The Ukrainians made these UAVs based on light-weight civillian aircrafts that are originally used for agriculture, tourism, or training amateur pilots.

Is that a 3d printed optics ball? They must be getting desperate.

nomadski wrote:


There are limitations to defence . A point where offensive tactics are more efficient .

This video looks fake to me, in the footage of the missile strike the vehicle hit appears to have two larger missile containers and a radar mast, while the cabin is too square to be an S-300V4. Then the aftermath photographs seem to be the same as an earlier post of a destroyed banderite S-300.

Hole wrote:

This up-armoured version dates back to 2001 - it is known as the Kaktus. Fitted with the package it's no longer amphibious until it is removed.

More than 3,100 foreign mercenaries are currently participating in the conflict in Ukraine on the side of the Ukrainian Armed Forces - The Investigative Committee (IC) of the Russian Federation.

"The investigation has gathered information indicating the involvement of over 3,100 mercenaries on the side of Ukraine," stated the message released by the IC.

The majority of the mercenaries are Americans (816), followed by citizens of Canada (719), Georgia (712) and Britain (694).

The Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation has initiated five criminal cases against mercenaries from the USA, Great Britain, and France, with intention to bring them to court.

https://twitter.com/EmbassyofRussia/status/1783796882348630404

It is sad and also a tragedy for Russia that more than one generation of ethnic Russian Ukrainians are being destroyed in this war.
On the other hand, unfortunately most of them were already completely lost for Russia, since they had been already brainwashed against Russia and did not use the opportunity to escape towards Russia after 2014 or at least after 2022 (they could have done it via Turkey after being accepted in EU).

Even those massacred in Bucha by the Ukrainians in order to accuse Russia were given the opportunity to leave for Russia or Bielorussia once Russia retreated. Of course many of those did not want to leave their home, but when your own government and armed groups are full of Neonazi I would prefer to lose my home than my life

YOu would think a big number of the pro-Russians left either post 2014 or pre 2022.
12m or so "Ukrainians" of all sorts left since early 2022. Leaving as little as 21m left. Perhaps the majority of those left are women, kids and elderly.

I know Ukrainians in the West eg California. Despite their temp location they are fiercely pro Russian and anti-Bandera-stani. Also pretty anti-Western as it happens.

Hopefully, the pro Russians were able to assess the risk logically. And that the Banderastanis were so consumed in hate they didn't realise the risk to themselves.

Either way, I hopeP utin has the balls to fully extract Russia's "pound of flesh" ie fully compensate those of the Russian World. I do v much like Putin as a man. BUT, this could have been sorted pretty easily in 2014 to 2020.
Instead Putin chose to placate the Western vermin politicians. The result was a significant operation rather than an extremely simple one.

If I can see how rotten the Western Establishment was, why couldn't Putin.
I know some say "ahh he didn't have the support" but I cannot accept that now.
After all, how long had Putin been in power already?!

I don't suppose the average IQ to improve since

Judging by a CNN "reporter" sniffing chemical weapons in a backpack in Syria... 

They must be getting desperate.

Using Cessna type aircraft as makeshift drones smacks of desperation.

Fitted with the package it's no longer amphibious until it is removed.

You should update your post. 

Possible aim at that part of the front

Firebird wrote:YOu would think a big number of the pro-Russians left either post 2014 or pre 2022.
12m or so "Ukrainians" of all sorts left since early 2022. Leaving as little as 21m left. Perhaps the majority of those left are women, kids and elderly.

I know Ukrainians in the West eg California. Despite their temp location they are fiercely pro Russian and anti-Bandera-stani. Also pretty anti-Western as it happens.

Hopefully, the pro Russians were able to assess the risk logically. And that the Banderastanis were so consumed in hate they didn't realise the risk to themselves.

Either way, I hopeP utin has the balls to fully extract Russia's "pound of flesh" ie fully compensate those of the Russian World. I do v much like Putin as a man. BUT, this could have been sorted pretty easily in 2014 to 2020.
Instead Putin chose to placate the Western vermin politicians. The result was a significant operation rather than an extremely simple one.

If I can see how rotten the Western Establishment was, why couldn't Putin.
I know some say "ahh he didn't have the support" but I cannot accept that now.
After all, how long had Putin been in power already?!

It's more complicated than it being a question of Putin being a tough guy

Russias economy has not been totally "free" if you will- for the last 20 years, and I don't mean explicitly because of the west

The Russian economy was more or less managed by a gang of 100 oligarchs that basically used both Russia and the west to enrich themselves, with the former taking greater losses as a result of the selfish actions of Russian oligarchs

They hoarded billions offshore, actually the 300 billion that Russia says is "western" in type C accounts is actually oligarch money hoarded in Cyprus, Dubai, UAE, Thailand, and so on that they brought back (only a small portion) to satisfy debt obligation to Western partners

The result? Those funds are frozen and will be totally fucking seized by Moscow

They also had a lot, maybe another 300 billion that the west threatens to steal in Europe and the US, with most of it in Europe, but there is another 700- 1 trillion USD they have hidden in other places as well

Some say the equivalent to the nominal Russian GDP,  around 1 trillion USD

This is not only euroclear accounts but also jets, yachts, villas and immobile assets

The point is, the oligarchs stripped Russia by taking majority stake in russian corporation and based them out of those same countries

Putin had to strike a grand compromise to get them to at least be neutral with respect to the government in the past

It went like this for decades before 24/02/2022

The sanctions came, and all hell broke lose

Oligarchs lost their assets overnight, and Putin became stronger

But the process is ongoing

With yandex for example, Volozh was vehemently against coming to Russia - although the west gave him no choice

He had to come on his knees, and resulted in bringing back Yandex to Russia, majority ownership to Saint Petersburg

This is what is happening on a grand scale

There is a massive wealth transfer that will change The face and not only, but structurally and deeply the Russian economy

The sanctions result in appropriation on a grand scale of the old oligarchs assets in Russia and abroad

The more the west squeezes them, the more pours into Russia - (counterintuitive? Or purposeful?   ) we don't know yet

But we do know it is happening, slowly the oligarchs realize they have no other choice but to submit to Moscow, if they want to remain wealthy

Along with it will come tax reform (announced yesterday, labor reform, immigration reform) well I can go on, but in general the changes are coming

And even the MOD, as you see Ivanov and his other cronies behind a glass, and like him... are many

The corruption is very big, and it needs to be tackled , results won't happen overnight, but they keep working

I bring this up, because this is on top of the fact that in 2022, the Russian economy was still oriented towards the west and sanctions would have killed Russia

Now, it's different, but not only because of this, but for the reasons I mentioned

Russia will gather its oligarchs kicking and screaming,  and if not, then revert to poverty and a new elite will gladly take over such factories, mansions, and corporations

A patriotic and sovereign elite which has been forged by the SMO

Some outstanding items besides this, is the question of currency

Chinese are buckling under US pressure, their banks stop accepting Yuan from Russia

The Indians already went this way

Anyway it is better for Russia to just accept crypto and let the Indians and Chinese remain incognito with respect to US sanctions

If they want to keep playing the game then let them

I agree with Arkhangelsk in this.

We discussed this also in this forum in the past.

Russia was probably more than capable in 2013/2014 to conquer all of Ukraine in a much simpler way and with much less bloodshed, but it would not have been able to keep it without 1930s style repression, unless they would have just organised a CIA style putsch to reinstall Yanukovich or medvedchuk as puppets.

But that would have only delayed everything and cause increased malcontents against Russia. Furthermore it would have brought 2022 level sanctions against Russia already in 2014, when Russia was not able to cope with them.

The sanctions against Russia started in 2014 but those were much lighter and slowly tempered Russia, forcing it to change its economy and being less reliant to the west.

If 2022 level sanctions had been implemented in 2014 Russia would probably had much more difficulty to resist, and possibly this would have caused a new Eltsin like Navalny to go to power, causing Russia to be divided in many smaller states.

Oh dear ..... If the French can't produce a single Crotale system in 8 months then it's nothing short of a joke. They have been in talks since last November (2023) about getting a single system borrowed from Greece. And they knew years ago about having to have this need for the Olympics. This is us embarrassing.



French authorities have formally submitted a request for the transfer of a Crotale short-range surface-to-air missile system of the Hellenic Air Force for the duration of the Paris Olympic Games. They have been in talks with Greece since last November.

The French, well-informed sources say, are suggesting that if Paris intends to provide anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine, it needs the allied assistance to ensure the air defense of critical infrastructure within the capital city hosting the Olympic Games.


https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1237264/french-ask-to-borrow-air-defense-system/

This up-armoured version dates back to 2001 - it is known as the Kaktus.

They have been showing lots of things for decades that only ever appear at shows and exhibitions... the important thing here is that they are actually deploying it now and we will see how it performs... and hopefully they can modify and upgrade it over time to be so much better that they will decide to do this with every BMP-3...

Which will reduces costs and improve performance.

I do v much like Putin as a man. BUT, this could have been sorted pretty easily in 2014 to 2020.

With the revelations from Merkel and Holland that the Minsk agreements were merely a ruse to delay everything so Kievs forces can be built up and trained to solve the problems by force rather than by negotiation as per the Minsk agreements... it means they were openly lying to his face and trying to screw him over because the ultimate goal for the west was not just a new navy base in the Black Sea but also at the same time kicking Russia out of its traditional Black Sea naval command centre, but also the plan was to overthrow Putin by destroying the Russian economy with the hopes in the future of splitting the country up into little pieces and taking ownership of things they were buying at such cheap prices at the time anyway. They wanted to own the gas they were buying, they wanted wood and metals and material super cheap so they could make crap and sell it to Russia for top dollar...

There was no good will or intent to solve problems... they wanted war and they got war and they are still complaining and blaming Putin for everything.

Instead Putin chose to placate the Western vermin politicians. The result was a significant operation rather than an extremely simple one.

Putin is a human being who chose negotiations rather than war. The west chooses war each time and first time because in the destruction there is lots of money to be make, not to mention the control it gives you over third parties you scare with the monster enemy you are dealing with, and of course the reconstruction also generates lots of income, though that is generally more corruption than actual reconstruction most of the time... both both ends earn fortunes for the people who position themselves in the right places. Haliburton for instance has Dick Cheney on its staff.... did that help them earn billions of dollars fixing things in a country the US does not give a shit about? That is the ideal because if you cared about the country you might follow up to see how things are there now, but with a country you don't much care for all the substandard work or no work at all is ignored...

If I can see how rotten the Western Establishment was, why couldn't Putin.

They are not trying to convince you. Putin had two choices... full military support for the oppressed in Ukraine, or talking and negotiations... he chose the right choice at the time. A full military attack in 2014 when Russia was still importing most of its food from the EU would have been rather different... Russia has moved on since then and has become stronger and more independent and BRICS is rather more mature and all this bullshit with the west has made China realise how important BRICS is over good relations with the US... which is clearly now going to end up as a train wreck and they know it.

It was relations during Covid that China realised that nothing it could do would please the west... they had lockdowns which the west said proves how authoritarian the Chinese are, so they lifted the lockdowns which the western media complained about because that would allow the virus to spread faster and wider and risks the rest of the planet... no matter what China did they were the bad guys, which is something every country on the planet needs to understand that it makes no sense to pander to the west because they are never happy.

I know some say "ahh he didn't have the support" but I cannot accept that now.

They didn't have the food production to feed themselves let alone send free food to Africa... a full scale conflict in 2014 would probably have led to no intervention in Syria, and all the lessons learned there about drones were likely invaluable... not to mention improved ties with Syria and Iran and even with Turkey... would Turkey have tried to be neutral if the conflict started in 2014?

Turkey is not 100% reliable, but Erdogan does respect strength and Russia is now strong.

Georgia would likely open a second front in 2014... not so much now...

So many things are different... access to SWIFT, or should I say loss of access to SWIFT would have been devastating in 2014 because they would not have made exceptions for food and for fertiliser back then I rather suspect.

French authorities have formally submitted a request for the transfer of a Crotale short-range surface-to-air missile system of the Hellenic Air Force for the duration of the Paris Olympic Games. They have been in talks with Greece since last November.

That is pathetic... this conflict in the Ukraine has been going on for three years now and they don't have basic air defence systems in production?

d_taddei2 wrote:Oh dear ..... If the French can't produce a single Crotale system in 8 months then it's nothing short of a joke. They have been in talks since last November (2023) about getting a single system borrowed from Greece. And they knew years ago about having to have this need for the Olympics. This is us embarrassing.

They could just ask the Chinese...problem solved

Awww, Putin was going to parade the lot of them through Moscow on May 9

I think the Russian got one.

They could just ask the Chinese.

Or the Russians. 

Keramik is captured

Is a big toilet maker located in that town?