Iskander-M/K (SS-26 Stone):

OminousSpudd wrote:

Austin wrote:Whats the point developing a Iskander like missile ? They already have a INF compliant BM and then develop a new one ?

In a word; saturation.

...and what Magnum mentioned.

Not necessairly. There was considered a variant of OKA with 900km range...

Russia developing upgraded version of Oka tactical missile system — defense ministry

The Oka system had a range of 400 km (248.5 miles) and, consequently, was excluded from the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) but was nonetheless scrapped under the treaty

MOSCOW, June 10. /TASS/. Russia is developing an upgraded version of the Oka tactical missile system (NATO reporting name: SS-23 Spider) scrapped under the INF Treaty, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Wednesday.
"There is no need in restoring the old system. We’re developing a new complex," Borisov said, adding the new missile system would be based on the Oka principle.

Present-day technologies allow for improving the system’s range and accuracy characteristics, the deputy defense minister said.
The OTR-23 Oka tactical ballistic missile system entered service in the Soviet Army in 1983. According to military experts, the Oka complexes made the US newest Patriot air defense missile systems completely ineffective at that time.
The Oka system had a range of 400 km (248.5 miles) and, consequently, was excluded from the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) but was nonetheless scrapped under the treaty.

The INF Treaty signed between the Soviet Union and the United States in 1987 stipulated the elimination of all ground-based ballistic missiles with the shorter ranges of between 500 and 1,000 km and the intermediate ranges of between 1,000 and 5,000 km.
The disposal of the ballistic missiles under the INF Treaty ended in 1991 and Russia and the United States completed their inspections in 2001.
The Soviet Union eliminated over 200 Oka missiles and 102 launchers.

http://tass.com/russia/800059

Isn't Iskander the successor to the Oka? then why bother develop a "new complex" based on Oka?

Project Canada wrote:

Russia developing upgraded version of Oka tactical missile system — defense ministry

The Oka system had a range of 400 km (248.5 miles) and, consequently, was excluded from the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) but was nonetheless scrapped under the treaty

MOSCOW, June 10. /TASS/. Russia is developing an upgraded version of the Oka tactical missile system (NATO reporting name: SS-23 Spider) scrapped under the INF Treaty, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Wednesday.
"There is no need in restoring the old system. We’re developing a new complex," Borisov said, adding the new missile system would be based on the Oka principle.

Present-day technologies allow for improving the system’s range and accuracy characteristics, the deputy defense minister said.
The OTR-23 Oka tactical ballistic missile system entered service in the Soviet Army in 1983. According to military experts, the Oka complexes made the US newest Patriot air defense missile systems completely ineffective at that time.
The Oka system had a range of 400 km (248.5 miles) and, consequently, was excluded from the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) but was nonetheless scrapped under the treaty.

The INF Treaty signed between the Soviet Union and the United States in 1987 stipulated the elimination of all ground-based ballistic missiles with the shorter ranges of between 500 and 1,000 km and the intermediate ranges of between 1,000 and 5,000 km.
The disposal of the ballistic missiles under the INF Treaty ended in 1991 and Russia and the United States completed their inspections in 2001.
The Soviet Union eliminated over 200 Oka missiles and 102 launchers.

http://tass.com/russia/800059

Isn't Iskander the successor to the Oka? then why bother develop a "new complex" based on Oka?

They could be creating a cheaper "dumb" SRBM, as opposed to the more expensive SRBM known as Iskander-M.

8th

MSC transmits eighth Defense Ministry "Iskander-M"

magnumcromagnon wrote:
A smaller compact Iskander means cheaper missiles that could be bunched in greater numbers on a launcher. Maybe instead of #2 450-500km missiles per launcher, the same launcher could hold #4 250km missiles, or maybe #8 125km missiles.

But then ground launched cruise missile can do the same job. What's the need for tactical ballistic missiles like the Iskander?

jhelb wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
A smaller compact Iskander means cheaper missiles that could be bunched in greater numbers on a launcher. Maybe instead of #2 450-500km missiles per launcher, the same launcher could hold #4 250km missiles, or maybe #8 125km missiles.

But then ground launched cruise missile can do the same job. What's the need for tactical ballistic missiles like the Iskander?

It certainly can not - thats why there is a ballistic and cruise missile technology each with advantages and disadvantages depending on the scenario.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Project Canada wrote:

Russia developing upgraded version of Oka tactical missile system — defense ministry

The Oka system had a range of 400 km (248.5 miles) and, consequently, was excluded from the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) but was nonetheless scrapped under the treaty

MOSCOW, June 10. /TASS/. Russia is developing an upgraded version of the Oka tactical missile system (NATO reporting name: SS-23 Spider) scrapped under the INF Treaty, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Wednesday.
"There is no need in restoring the old system. We’re developing a new complex," Borisov said, adding the new missile system would be based on the Oka principle.

Present-day technologies allow for improving the system’s range and accuracy characteristics, the deputy defense minister said.
The OTR-23 Oka tactical ballistic missile system entered service in the Soviet Army in 1983. According to military experts, the Oka complexes made the US newest Patriot air defense missile systems completely ineffective at that time.
The Oka system had a range of 400 km (248.5 miles) and, consequently, was excluded from the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) but was nonetheless scrapped under the treaty.

The INF Treaty signed between the Soviet Union and the United States in 1987 stipulated the elimination of all ground-based ballistic missiles with the shorter ranges of between 500 and 1,000 km and the intermediate ranges of between 1,000 and 5,000 km.
The disposal of the ballistic missiles under the INF Treaty ended in 1991 and Russia and the United States completed their inspections in 2001.
The Soviet Union eliminated over 200 Oka missiles and 102 launchers.

http://tass.com/russia/800059

Isn't Iskander the successor to the Oka? then why bother develop a "new complex" based on Oka?

They could be creating a cheaper "dumb" SRBM, as opposed to the more expensive SRBM known as Iskander-M.

They might use Oka base to develop intermediate range balistic missile, 2000-3000km range. Which are still forbidden by START tho.

Viktor wrote:
It certainly can not - thats why there is a ballistic and cruise missile technology each with advantages and disadvantages depending on the scenario.

Can you please elaborate on this - in which scenarios will Iskander do a better job than ground launched cruise missiles? Thanks.

jhelb wrote:

Viktor wrote:
It certainly can not - thats why there is a ballistic and cruise missile technology each with advantages and disadvantages depending on the scenario.

Can you please elaborate on this - in which scenarios will Iskander do a better job than ground launched cruise missiles? Thanks.

Balistic trajectory with possibility of maneuvering, few times higher speed than cruise missile, higher payload...

Cruise missile is a low flying subsonic weapon... if you detect it in the first place then interception even with an old aircraft like a MiG-21 would be likely.

Think of it in terms of WWII... there were buzz bombs and there were ballistic missiles... V1s and V2s.

A late model spitfire on patrol could dive from high altitude and catch up on a buzz bomb and fly next to it and let the drag from its own wing flip the buzz bomb without needing to fire a shot (if it tried to shoot it down with its guns then it risked being destroyed in the rather large explosion that would take place if the missiles warhead exploded.)

Today of course modern SAMs can intercept very fast ballistic missiles, but modern manouvering missiles would still be relatively safe from major SAMs...

There is no need in restoring the old system. We’re developing a new complex

Suggests they are not upgrading OKA, they are likely upgrading Iskander...

In current times of uncertainty, having a cheap ballistic missile (be it short or medium range) is very much ideal, especially if a launch platform is created so that the system can fire not one, but two, four or more. Such a system is ideal in dealing with a conflict of attrition and being able to strike your enemy from afar and hardened position (Airfield, SAM site, concentration of troops). Ukraine is currently building Grom-2 which is supposed to be their variant of "Iskander-M" but we all know that Ukraine can't build reliable....anything so it is still a threat but not that large of one. But it may be cheap - which means they could field more of. If Russia can produce something like an Oka or Tochka that is somewhat modern but cheaper to produce (it would be very cheap to just restart the projects compared to building something new with new design) and modernized, then they could have a solid system of cheap missiles. If they can produce such a system of being thinner as well, they can have a multi launcher system of semi-long range missiles ready to rain down on an enemy position. If they are highly accurate (GLONASS guided, SAR, Imager, etc) then point air defense systems like iron done will not be effective as it will be overwhelmed.

The problem is that even basing a new design on an old weapon wont make it cheaper or more effective as most of the parts will no longer be in production.

In fact I would say the computerised components will be relatively cheap... the expensive component will be solid rocket fuel...

The 119th Missile Brigade received a brigade set of 9K720 "Iskander-M" missile complexes, and became fully rearmed

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Missile Brigade CVO rearmed with new operational-tactical missile complexes "Iskander-M"

119th Missile Brigade 41 th Combined Arms Army of the Central Military District, stationed in the Sverdlovsk region rearmed with new operational-tactical missile complexes "Iskander-M".



According to the Russian Defense Ministry on November 11 at Kapustin Yar in the Astrakhan region will be held a solemn ceremony of handing over military equipment received by the connection in the framework of the state defense order.

Divisions will receive kits launchers, life support systems, regulation and maintenance, preparation of the information items, transport and charging and command and staff vehicles.

Earlier missile troops passed retraining program. Complexes, delivered from the manufacturing plant, have been integrated into a single information system and tested. Help calculations have engineers from the Engineering Design Bureau in Kolomna near Moscow. After securing military equipment for crews at the site will combat missile launches.

Brigadier set PTRC "Iskander-M" consists of 12 units. SPU 9P78-1, 12 units. transport and loading vehicles 9T250, 11 units. command and staff vehicles 9S552, 14 units. life-support machine, 1 unit. point 9S920 training information, 1 unit. Machine-routine maintenance, 9 units. R-145BM.


PTRC "Iskander-M" is intended for covert preparation and application of effective missile strikes aeroballistic (at a distance of 700 km) and cruise missiles (at a distance of up to 2 thousand. Km) on the most important miniature and area targets in the operational and tactical depth of the enemy troops. Rockets can be with the following warheads: nuclear, high-explosive, high-explosive incendiary, penetrating, cassette.

This is the second set which received Brigadier of the Armed Forces this year.

Serial deliveries PTRC "Iskander-M" in the army has been underway for the fourth year. Schedule delivery of consistently maintained. Total at this point of the Armed Forces have 9 teams and 12 units. SPU 9P78-1 and Division 1 to 4 units. SPU 9P78-1. All together 112 SPU 9P78-1.

Source (in Russian, translated to english with Google Translator): http://www.milkavkaz.net/2016/11/raketnaya-brigada-tsvo-poluchila-iskander.html

Τhis was the 9th brigade of Iskander missiles delivered.

Thus, in the Russian Armed Forces, there are two missile brigades, armed with the old "Tochka-U", 152 Guards (Chernyakhovsk, Kaliningrad region) and 448th (Kursk) in the Western Military District.

Apparently, the two remaining to be delivered (under the contract of 2011) brigade sets of "Iskander-M", the transmission of which must be made in 2017, will be spent on upgrading 448th missile brigade, and to equip the missile brigade of the new formation of the Western or Southern military districts.

152nd Guards missile Brigade re-arming with "Iskander-M" in Kaliningrad region for political reasons would be postponed to a later date.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2293950.html

This iskanders could potentially be used to knockdown warships battle groups. You launch one
from land ,lets say to the middle of pacific sea and target a carrier battle group, The nuke
will damage all the electronics and radars of every warship withing an area of 20km and blind it for an hour about 40km. and then launch an easy cruise missile behind to finish the job.

The container version of Oniks has four tubes in a standard 40ft crate...

The Iskander is a relatively short missile so you could probably put four in a container two separate pairs one in front of each other that could be launched.

The Iskander has an electro optical guidance option where a satellite photo of the target can be used for targeting... ie a GLONASS location and a satellite image of a ship could be used to engage ships...

Two Russian army formations rearmed with Iskander tactical missiles in 2016

More:
http://tass.com/defense/921528

Russia’s Defense Ministry considering Iskander missile system upgrade

The Iskander-M (NATO reporting name: SS-26 Stone) tactical ballistic missile system will be operational during the next 25-30 years and proposals for its upgrade are being considered by Russia’s Defense Ministry, General Designer of the Machine-Building Design Bureau Valery Kashin told TASS.


"We have worked out proposals to upgrade the system. They are being considered by the Defense Ministry. However, innovations should be timed to big events. By the early 2020s, ten years will have passed since the first brigade received the Iskander-M system and it will be time to repair it," Kashin said.

According to him, the upgrade of Iskander-M systems should be synchronized with their repair and maintenance so as not to reduce brigades’ combat readiness.

"As far as the service life of operational Iskander-M systems is concerned, we believe that the system will be in service as much as its predecessors, i.e. 25-30 years. The Tochka system entered service more than 40 years ago, while the Tochka-U reached its initial operational capability 30 years ago," the general designer said.

According to him, the deliveries of Iskander-M systems envisage the construction of all required infrastructure, including accommodations, depots and launch sites.

"This implies serious expenses. It will be irrational spending of budget funds if we manufacture new systems every five-ten years. At the same time, new military hardware may be developed and new political problems and border threats may emerge. Naturally, we will respond to this by upgrading the system," Kashin added.

Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/russias_defense_ministry_considering_iskander_missile_system_upgrade_52401162.html

Im curious about how much Iskanders Russia have on its inventory..

The next video , even though looks very amateur , claims
Russia have 

500 Iskanders -M
400 Toschka  missiles



anyone knows how many Iskanders Russia have? 
and he also claims US have about 7,400 cruise missiles??? vs 500 of Russia. 
if that is true , it represent a major threat to Russia if so many deployed near Russian
borders and fired with nuclear warheads in a first strike attack.

Vann7 wrote:Im curious about how much Iskanders Russia have on its inventory..

The next video , even though looks very amateur , claims
Russia have 

500 Iskanders -M
400 Toschka  missiles



anyone knows how many Iskanders Russia have? 
and he also claims US have about 7,400 cruise missiles??? vs 500 of Russia. 
if that is true , it represent a major threat to Russia if so many deployed near Russian
borders and fired with nuclear warheads in a first strike attack.

it looks amateur because it is. Russia still has its soviet stockpile as well. Now that we know yakhont has a ground attack capability, the amount of cruise missiles in Russia's inventory is larger than Franco's guess. Their air launch cruise missile inventory like Kh-55 would still be large.

miketheterrible wrote:

Vann7 wrote:Im curious about how much Iskanders Russia have on its inventory..

The next video , even though looks very amateur , claims
Russia have 

500 Iskanders -M
400 Toschka  missiles



anyone knows how many Iskanders Russia have? 
and he also claims US have about 7,400 cruise missiles??? vs 500 of Russia. 
if that is true , it represent a major threat to Russia if so many deployed near Russian
borders and fired with nuclear warheads in a first strike attack.

it looks amateur because it is. Russia still has its soviet stockpile as well. Now that we know yakhont has a ground attack capability, the amount of cruise missiles in Russia's inventory is larger than Franco's guess. Their air launch cruise missile inventory like Kh-55 would still be large.

Majority of Soviet stockpile is long gone, you cant upkeep such devices forever.

Militarov wrote:

Majority of Soviet stockpile is long gone, you cant upkeep such devices forever.

The cruise missiles are cheap, you can buy thirty-sixty of them for the price of an aircraft.

1000 cruise missile = 20-30 SU-35

Singular_Transform wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Majority of Soviet stockpile is long gone, you cant upkeep such devices forever.

The cruise missiles are cheap, you can buy thirty-sixty of them for the price of an aircraft.

1000 cruise missile = 20-30 SU-35

And laser/GPS guided bombs are even cheaper, yet how many are there stockpiled in Russia? 500?